Top 10 Tips to be a KICK ASS SDR!!!

Speaker 0    00:00:01    Coming to you from Orlando, Florida, Orlando, Florida, and streaming around the world around the world. You're not tuned in to the sales samurai podcast. The only B2B sales podcast, providing unfiltered unapologetic views and tactics directly from the sales trenches. Here's your host, Sam Capra.  
Speaker 1    00:00:30    Welcome to episode 15 of the sales samurai. Thanks for listening. Before we begin, do us a favor as always take a moment to subscribe and download on today's show. We're going to be discussing top 10 tips to be a kick ass SDR. And I have an amazing guest for you guys, Eric Smith. After about 10 years of paying his dues in the sales landscape, broke into the SAS space as an SDR only to be fired during COVID. But what he did is he took what he learned and he combined that with 15 years working in the music industry and actually started his own company called above ground. They offer podcasts and digital marketing services. It was from there. He created the widely recognized lowly SDR podcast, which I highly recommend you guys check out, which speaks against the broken system that a sales development, Eric man, welcome to the show brother. How are you?  
Speaker 2    00:01:20    I'm doing great, man. Thanks for having me, Sam excited,  
Speaker 1    00:01:23    Man. I got to start this episode off with a very relevant topic. That's what we're all about. Personalization on this show. The Phoenix suns, man. I know you're out there. Big Arizona brother. That was a rough, that was a rough series. After getting out started pretty quickly to, oh,  
Speaker 2    00:01:39    I have the weirdest relationship with sports man. Like growing up, my parents were from Buffalo. So my childhood, my introduction into sports or the Bill's going to four super bowls and losing them. Right. And then like, then I was like, all right, I'm a New York Yankees fan. Right. Cause I want to root for a team that actually fucking wins. Right. And then like, then I got bored of that. I'm like, man, these guys went too much. Right. So I'm like, I need a little bit more pain. So I went back to reading for the sons. They lose to Jordan, you know, like whatever the dime backs they sucked for forever. They finally won one. But whatever baseball, I'm not that huge on it. Um, but yeah man, it was rough. I kind of had a feeling that I was going to happen. Like I love Chris Paul, but like I always just knew he was a choke artist. And like, so I just expected it. Yonis is a beast like kudos to the bucks, man. That's awesome,  
Speaker 1    00:02:31    Man. Yeah. I had to kick it off that way. We'll pay, man. We're going to go into a completely different podcast. We're going to go into NBA podcasts. I don't know if I have the rights to that. So we'll bypass that. And so before we kind of kicked things off, cause we do have a pretty, it's actually one of the topics that people ping me quite a bit on is because SDR is such a vital role in today's day and age. I know you're going to talk about it because it's something you live and breathe. It was, I don't wanna say it was looked down on, but it was kind of considered this kind of entry-level and like, Hey tournament, Burnham is just a stepping stone to the next path. And I think that shift is we're going to talk a little bit about that and how to make sure you're a kick ass SDR. I mean, we're going to talk, that's going to be our top track, but before we do kind of give the audience a little bit of a background, I love how you've dubbed yourself. The lowly SDR dependent. Give the audience a little bit of a background yourself.  
Speaker 2    00:03:26    Yeah, absolutely. So my path has been kind of crazy. Like I, you know, we were talking about sports. I wanted to be a professional hockey player. Actually. I was like really big into, you know, ice hockey. I thought that's what I was going to do. I had a bad accident skateboarding that kind of ruined it, but I got into music. I was in the music industry a long time. I went to college, I studied business and sound engineering and music business and stuff like that. And then eventually that industry kind of like dried up with streaming services and technology becoming so cheap people could record at home and stuff like that. So I worked odd jobs and I was always kind of entrepreneur, but I did work a lot of like sales jobs, you know, retail. I worked in outside sales, uh, worked with my father and stuff like that.  
Speaker 2    00:04:11    And then eventually landed a role in, uh, commercial finance. I was selling insurance and you know, lines of credit and stuff like that. And it was cool. And then my sister got a job in SAS being a PM at Sandoz. So I got an SDR job there and uh, that was kind of my entry into SAS. And that's where I kind of all this started. I got fired during COVID and I kind of realized how corrupt the in broken the SDR system was. I immediately started my own company. It's called the above ground. We offered podcast services in the very beginning. Now we've kind of blossomed into full digital marketing services and you know, now it's, it's going well, man, we're, we're working with some B2B startups, stuff like that. But you know, that's where we are. I started my own podcast. I guess that's a big high note at the lowly STR podcasts where people probably know me from. And yeah. So that's where we are. I  
Speaker 1    00:05:00    Love that man. And the reason in duly noted, I reached out to Erica. Eric is one of the guys I wanted to actually get on the show because I, Hey, I love your podcast. I think it's excellent. I love the down to earth unapologetic, just talking from the cuff, that's our approach. I don't want this wholistic. Mumbo-jumbo from somebody who hasn't done it in 88 years, telling me about how to manage being an SDR when they've never even been an SDR. I love that about you, but tell me, because I know the very first venture was in said no, so from an SDR, but I always like to understand the origin stories. Like what was the first true sales job you had? Cause I think he had like a hose company. Why don't you like didn't you do something with like,  
Speaker 2    00:05:45    Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's, so my dad, he's a lifelong salesman, you know, he's a senior salesman and he's currently retired or on his way out. That was kind of like my introduction to sales. I was playing professional poker. And during that time I was just like helping them out, find new accounts and you know, kind of like work with that, you know, account management side of it. Right. And, and that's where I kind of fell in love with sales was watching my dad, my dad would go out and he'd run into people. And he, he was just good at selling people on anything. Right. He was like really personable and stuff like that. But I guess like my first like would probably be like retail sales. Like I can't remember what the first one, but I worked at hat club. My family is like rooted into like hat club.  
Speaker 2    00:06:29    They were really high up in that company. I guess that would be my first. I dunno. So dude, I'm old. So like they just trying to think back to what my first sales job was. But honestly I think like my first sales would probably be selling myself like in high school. I used to run like a little, I guess you'd call it entertainment company. I would DJ for private parties and weddings and stuff like that. So I would sell people on like little packages of like, you know, I'll DJ your party. I'll MC it I'll, you know, create lights and stuff like that. And I learned that from another company, but then I just did it myself. So it's  
Speaker 1    00:07:05    Funny. And it's always a question. I always ask every guest because it's always across the board. But the one thing I don't think I've heard and maybe going back through all the episodes I've recorded in our life, maybe I'm going to be proven wrong, but I've never heard anyone say, oh, when I was a kid, I dreamed of being a salesperson. Like,  
Speaker 3    00:07:24    I don't know. I've heard,  
Speaker 1    00:07:26    I'm hoping one day one guest can like, yeah, I was four years old and I was selling tea. I was selling a pin to my dad.  
Speaker 2    00:07:34    Yeah. When I was, you know, selling lemonade at my lemonade stand man. That's when I knew it. I knew this was my calling. You know what I'm saying? Like, and people were trying to become astronauts and they want to be doctors. Now, man, I wanted to sling that lemonade and I knew I was good at it.  
Speaker 1    00:07:51    That'd be awesome. I would hire that guy. That's the crate. That's the guy who would hire no.  
Speaker 2    00:07:56    No for sure. Like, I think that's a question that I ask a lot on my own podcast and it is funny. Like I think I've heard a few things that I think is kind of funny and relevant, but it's like, you know, sales can be like the trashcan of careers right. Where it's like, you know, or like the outcast of professionals right. Where it's like, w we kind of fall into this. Right. And I think it's like a few motivating factors were we're usually, self-starters, we're usually people that are motivated by money are usually like that kind of like the more work you put in, the more you get out of it. Right. And I think that's where it kind of comes from. And yeah, like it's a very volatile career. Right. So I think that's why there's not a lot of people that, you know, are like, oh, I want to be a salesman. Right. Cause there's not a lot of security in it, but it can get you to the places that you want to be  
Speaker 1    00:08:43    Without a doubt. No, without a doubt, man. Hey, so I think that's a good segue because I'm really excited about this, man. We're going to do something a little bit different on today's show and your list is probably going to be a whole lot better than my list I far. So what we plan to do for today's show is we're going to do the top 10 tips to be a kick ass SDR. And so what Eric has done is he's kind of boiled up his five and, and through the show, he's already told me offline. He may swap is up. So it's going to be real flu everyone. I got mine five. I can't be fluid because he's only five. I know. So I might have pretty rigid and we're going to compare and contrast, where do we overlap? Where do we agree? And for that matter, where do we call bullshit? Or where do we disagree on some of these things? If we  
Speaker 2    00:09:30    Do, I kind of have a looking forward to the disagreement part. I think there's too much agreement. And like, you know, patent people on the back, I'm looking for, do you mean like, man, you're full, uh, you know, whatever will be  
Speaker 1    00:09:46    This man. Like, I be like, that's it not for  
Speaker 2    00:09:49    Long though, man. Like, I don't know, like you're getting advice from someone who got fired. So, you know, I take it for what it is, but I do think I from doing my podcasts and stuff and being in sales for a long time, I think I do have something to offer, but let's just preface that. Yeah. I'm not like, you know, what's  
Speaker 1    00:10:06    Funny about that, Eric, and I'm glad you actually brought that up because I think that at least when I'm talking to salespeople, I think salespeople actually the good salespeople evolve the most from, I got canned because I didn't do X, Y, and Z, but here's how I learned better. Right. Versus someone that's always been, Hey, I haven't had to learn anything cause I've always been good. And I haven't evolved as a salesperson. I've always found those people that have had hiccups, you know, 80% of quota, Hey, one year I was only 50% of code, but here's what I learned from it. Now I've been 120, 130. Those are the people that, you know, could take coaching. They know, they know how to get better. They know they want to evolve. I think so. I'm glad you brought that up because I think that's actually something people should be, everyone's going to fail them. Yeah,  
Speaker 2    00:10:53    No doubt. Yeah, definitely. Man. I mean, I think part of it was because of COVID and I w I was actually a decent SDR. Like I was probably third or second in my class, you know, or my team or whatever. And, you know, I set two demos on my first day, but you know, I did actually learn a lot more after the role. Right. Like talking about it and learning from other people and we'll get into that, but like those reasons, but yeah, I think if I ever unfortunately, had to go back to being an SDR, like I think I would kill it now. Like I have a better approach to it nowadays. Yeah.  
Speaker 1    00:11:26    Oh man. All right, man. Since you're the guests, man, I'm going to give you the honors. I'm going to give you the first dibs at, okay. We're not SAC ranking this. So this is not in a list of importance. Like this is number one, we're doing this in any order. What is your number one tip to being a ass SDR?  
Speaker 2    00:11:45    So I think this is one, that's a little overused and people are probably sick of hearing. But I do think this is the most important, not just like an SDR, right? Think a lot of these can, it can apply to any sales role or a lot of different professions, but create a personal brand and build your network. Like embrace the perception everyone has of you and prove them wrong. If you're an SDR, the problem with being an SDR is people think what, why should I talk to you? Right? Like you're just a low level rep. Like you're just spamming emails out, right? Like build a brand. Be interesting. Like find out something about you. Like if you're worried about people taking your, you know, people not connecting with you on LinkedIn or not answering your phone calls or replying to your emails, like you need to create a perception of yourself. That's different from what people perceive you. Right. So, so create a personal brand, find a niche or a talent of yours and get out there, build a network it's gonna create so much opportunity, not just in booking demos, but further on your career, et cetera. I think it's  
Speaker 1    00:12:47    Really important. All right, man. So I agree with you. I agree. And I slightly disagree. So I agree. I think everyone should be building a personal brand and only place I disagree with you at is the genuine piece of, I find people are just like they're doing, because someone told them they should be doing it. And it's like, you can tell that they're not talking up in something that they know anything about. Like, you know, I think being genuine in what you're sharing is the key to that person. Right? Like I love the lowly SDR. Like that's a great personal brand. Right. So, and I'm assuming you mean from that standpoint, Hey, you should be genuine in what you're trying to build. Don't talk about something you don't know.  
Speaker 2    00:13:27    No. And building a personal brand. I think people get like misconstrued this. Right? Cause I think you're 100% spot on. I think the worst thing that you could do is build a brand around something that isn't you, right? Like don't talk to things that you, you know, aren't passionate about. Aren't, you know, versed in, you know, like think about who you are and it doesn't even have to be about sales, right? Like you could be the, you know, the sports guy or something like it just building any type of brand. Now, if you're in sales, I do think sales should be a part of it, but you don't only have to be, you know, creating content yourself. Like your brand could be like commenting on other people that's content. Right. People forget that if that's something you're not comfortable with, then no, I get what you're saying.  
Speaker 2    00:14:15    Like, don't go out there and try to be someone you're not, but maybe that's your brand of going out there and being like, I don't know, shit. You know, like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, and, and that's like you said, like I created the lowly SDR. I used to just call myself that because I felt like that I felt like I was just this low level employee on a totem pole that no one gave me any respect. And, and I would even be in the sales circles and it would be like, oh, he's just an STR, what does he know when it's like, what three months of my life is going to define who I am? Like, I thought it was so dumb. And really what I realized was that like SDRs were actually, so, and they're the least valued. Right? So like, yeah. Do something like that. Or like, you know, find, find something that you do really well, that people don't, you know, on that note.  
Speaker 1    00:15:00    But here's where I do agree with you from the simple fact that what you don't think is important may be extremely important to someone. You know what I mean by that is even from a leadership standpoint, you know, I'm not doing that, that level of, you know, 300 calls, 300 emails and, and learning on the fly. Like, Hey, this email has got no response. Like that's valuable to understand what's working in the marketplace that maybe people are not seeing or not talking about or not discussing, or the challenges that you're facing that other peers might be facing. That could be a nice sounding board or, Hey, I'm hearing this quite a bit. I just wanted to share this. Is anyone else experiencing this and getting a dialogue started. So I don't think it all has to be around thought leadership. It could be, Hey, here's what I'm experienced. Anyone else experiencing this?  
Speaker 2    00:15:50    No, exactly man. There's enough people out there that hit 120% of quota that, you know, our senior AEs, a huge SAS companies. Like, no, I think what, what people really liked about what we were doing with the lowly STR was we're coming at it from like, let's just be honest, right? Like, let's just talk about like the, the good, the bad and the ugly, right? Like we, we try to give people actionable tips, but it originated from me and my friend, Tyler, like just talking, you know, like smoking cigarettes in the basement of San DOSO. Right? Like, and we were like, man, we have like a good rapport. We should record some of this sometime. And that was already creating a podcast for them at the time. And that's what eventually evolved into the SGR, but speak to the people, create content around things that you want, right? Like there's a huge lack of advice and content on LinkedIn on a bunch of different subjects. Don't try to chase like, you know, what other people are doing that successful. Find what you're passionate about, find what works for you and run with it. Hey,  
Speaker 1    00:16:56    So on that note and we'll, I'm going to give you my first one, but on that note, just to make this extremely tactical, it's not quantity. It's not like, Hey, you got to go out there and post a million. Hey, you don't fit in a few posts, one really good piece. And then maybe you follow five, 10 people that are interested in you. Like what? Like the lowly SDR, like a John Barrows, whoever you like, who kind of speaks, you're tying to language. And then to your point, commenting is content get involved in the conversation. Maybe you start with one piece of content, a good piece of content that you produce, but then you focus on doing five, 10 comments for the week on five 10 people that you really like that are echoing some of the same challenges or thought leadership, if you will, that you're in tune with. That's a good start. Right? Eric. I mean, if you do nothing else,  
Speaker 2    00:17:48    100. Yeah. I mean, and like honestly I think one thing that people don't take advantage of with my podcast is that like, we've done giveaways. We've done like, Hey, do this for us or connect with us and talk with us and we'll get you on the podcast. Right. And like, unfortunately not a lot of people have took us up on that. Or some people are too shy, but like that's a possibility, right. Go reach out to the people you idolize and, and talk with them and ask them like, Hey, what can I do to get on your podcast? Right. Like, or just like, yeah. Like, I love that you said that because I am the epitome of that. I do not post a lot. I do not even release a lot of episodes, but I put a lot of time and effort into making it sound good and professional. And I've been criticized for that in the past. But I think that's my way of doing it. That's awesome,  
Speaker 1    00:18:36    Man. All right. So my number one, and this is a little bit, I don't want to say it's cliche, but I think it's a given it's table stakes, but as much as I think it's table stakes, I don't think it's done well. And it's time, time management be selfish with your time. So I'm going to give a specific example of that. An SDR can get pulled in a lot of different directions. I think you would agree with that, Eric, that, Hey, you got to set 15 meetings. Hey, you got to qualify this. Hey, you got to hand this off. Hey, you got to do research on these 10 20 accounts, all the other stuff on top of it, Hey, here's your training and enablement. You got to do so on and so forth. You've got to be very diligent and Hey, here's blocks of time that these are just non-negotiables.  
Speaker 1    00:19:24    Here's my prospecting time. Here's what I'm doing here. And you've got to manage up and I know that's a little challenging. Cause STRs are typically younger college students. They may not feel comfortable in that, but you need to have an expectation with your boss. Hey, here's what you expect from me. Here's what I need from a time to make that happen. And then hold everyone accountable to that. Even down to just calendar blocks and an old mentor mindset. There's a long time ago, put it on your calendar. I'm like, who cares about the calendar? No, one's going to care. But if nothing else, the color coding do not like in today's day and age of invite, invite sending invites. If it's blocked, an automatic decline goes out. That's the value of it? I mean, it sounds very simplistic, but I do it myself to this day. I have times are dedicated for everything. Self-improvement listening to podcasts, everything, and it keeps me honed in on what is important. So time being selfish is my number one. Tip thoughts on that, Eric, is it bull crap? What do you think?  
Speaker 2    00:20:29    I think, yeah, I think it's great. I wish that I was more, more like that. This is something that I'm working on currently is I'm horrible at time management and organization, stuff like that. I do think sometimes just to try to disagree with you play devil's advocate. I think in the SDR role, it is tough because like you do, you get pulled in so many directions and you know, you can't really choose what you're going to do when like your boss pulls you aside and asked to have your one-on-ones or you have the team meetings and then you have like, you know, whatever is going on. I do like the blocking it off on the calendar because I don't know if this would have worked run out in STR, but I think maybe having it on your calendar, your manager might think twice about like pulling you aside to ask you some dumb question or, you know, flame you about like, not writing your email subjects right. Or something like that. Right. Like they see like, oh, okay. Sam is cold calling these hours right here. Right. And then he's going to send emails and then he's doing this follow up, you know, emails and recaps and stuff like that on these blocks, they might think twice about Assa. And I, and I do think all of that stuff is important because it's overwhelming. Like sales is overwhelming, right? Like you have all these external factors and then just getting to do your job sometimes is difficult enough. So I like that.  
Speaker 1    00:21:51    I think you hit the nail on the head there because that's a dual-edged sword. Right. Because if we have our one-on-ones, it should be the leader's job to make those pretty routine. Every Monday at one o'clock is your one-on-one. If I have to change it because of something that came up on my end, then that's on me. Right. So I see your block. If you don't have availability that two to three or three to four, I'm not booking you because that's my bad, I had to reschedule. I'm going to accommodate you. But if it's not on the calendar, I'm just going to put it at two o'clock versus one o'clock and expect you to show up. Right.  
Speaker 2    00:22:23    Exactly. That would happen to me all the time. It would be like you had your one on ones on this time, but it would, it never was at that time. Right. The Thursdays one o'clock whatever is your one-on-one. It would never be that. Cause it would get pushed and then, you know, it'd be like, oh, and changing it to this time and it would always get moved around. So yeah, I think like, you know, taking a little bit of like professionalism and being like, upfront about like, no, I, I do my call blocks right now, you know, because it really is kind of up to you, right. To just like, just get your calls done, get your emails sent out, whatever, hit your quota. They don't really care how it's done. They usually suggest like, you know, call in the morning, whatever. But, uh, yeah, if you have those blocks and they're gonna, maybe they'll check in with you, Hey, does this work for you? And then that kind of creates a more healthy relationship between you and your manager.  
Speaker 1    00:23:16    So, I mean, so the final takeaway on my thought, and we'll just move on to your number three is, start with blocking your calendar, but have that dialogue with your manager as well. Here's what I'm thinking of doing it's fluid. Like maybe this week it's these, but I'm going to try foam blocks on Mondays at one and then on Tuesdays at 9:00 AM. But then the next week I'm going to flip that. But there's some, but every week there's things that are blocked off. Are you in agreement? Do you, do you have any recommendations? Any thoughts get buy-in from leadership, but that also gets you what you need, which is level setting, setting expectations, and driving, just being effective.  
Speaker 2    00:23:53    They're going to love that too. Yeah. Like they're going to  
Speaker 1    00:23:56    It. I love it. I, I, I would really respect that, especially from anyone, but especially someone that's saying, Hey, I want to own my time. And here's how I'm going to do that. That's fantastic. Yeah.  
Speaker 2    00:24:06    My manager was like so big on that. Like the being super organized and I was the opposite of that. So that's probably why she didn't like me much. Right. She was like, what is wrong with this kid, man? Like number  
Speaker 1    00:24:18    Three, man. So what's your next one?  
Speaker 2    00:24:20    So I think we're on two, right? Well you're  
Speaker 1    00:24:22    Number two, three overall. Yeah,  
Speaker 2    00:24:25    Yeah. Yeah. So I think this is a big one to take control of your career and invest in yourself. Right? I think one of the hardest parts about getting into an SDR role is you get, you get sucked into this idea where they're like, yeah, become an SDR. We'll have you as an a E. And you know, like, you know, if you just hit quota, like, you know, three months in a row, you'll be in a E right. What they don't tell you is that no one's ever done that. No one has ever just came in and hit quota three months in a row or three quarters or whatever it is and became an E. Right. So take control of your own career by telling them upfront, right? Like tell your managers, figure out what you want to do first. Right? Like being an STR doesn't mean you have to be an a E, right?  
Speaker 2    00:25:11    Like you can just get in there to get into the ground floor. Maybe you want to move into marketing. That's that's a great natural transition. Actually. Maybe you want to be a manager. Right. But you need to be upfront and not depend on the company to just give you that, hand that out to you. Right? Like you need to be persistent about asking them for new opportunities and make it clear to them when you get hired, like, what is the career path? Like? What is the average time people get promoted and, and, and hold them accountable to that. And then also on the other side of that is like, invest in yourself. I hear a lot of times people coming to me and being like, Hey, I'm an SDR at this new company. And you know, like we don't have a tech stack, we don't have this.  
Speaker 2    00:25:50    We don't have that. You know, like my, you know, the company's not really giving me the tools. Well look like I felt the same way at the company I was at. And they were, you know, they raised millions of millions of dollars. Right. They had a bunch of tools that didn't do anything for me. Right. Like I needed a sales, NAB license and they wouldn't give it to me. Right. That was the most important thing to me. And as soon as I just bought the license for myself, like I buy tools and coaching and learn from other people all the time. Like go out there, pay for personal coaching, you know, get into different sales organizations like, you know, go out there, spread the word off of building your network and your personal brand too. You'll be surprised how many opportunities will present yourself by just going out there, you know, like investing a little money in your career, like invest in tools you think will help you set more demos. Don't wait for the company to come through and give you the training. You need it. It's just, it's not a reality. It, it, it would be great if that's how it was. But the reality is is that, you know, it doesn't happen a lot. I'm  
Speaker 1    00:26:49    Going to dovetail because that's actually, one of mine is that I took it as take initiative, but that's easily transitions and take initiative of your career of your training. Because I agree with you, you know, you should be working with your boss on what is your career path? What do you want it to look like? What's the timeline to get there. If I'm producing, when can I expect to make that next step? What is that next step? Do I have to go that direction? Can I go in this direction instead? What are my opportunities? If I don't want to be an a E and I want to do something else, I agree with you. The other piece that Eric has is I think you mentioned, I couldn't, as much as I want to disagree with you on it is I believe that in today's day and age, there's no excuse for you not owning your own. Self-learning like whether the company provides it for you or not. There's so many on demand things. John Barris, bill Caskey, antlers, there's so many resources available, podcasts, webinars that you can find so much for free, even on a YouTube that you have no excuse not to be improving in your skillset. I  
Speaker 2    00:27:51    Learned everything on YouTube. Like in the last year I learned how to build computers. I built my own computer. I learned SEO. I learned how to take my video editing next level. I learned like really the podcast game, like in and out. And I learned web design. I learned graphic design. Like I already had a little bit of foundation for, for a lot of these things. But taking it from being a novice, to being a professional, like in just you watching hours and hours of YouTube, like, yeah. And there's just so much out there, you know, like me just having a podcast, right? Like create a podcast, no one even has to hear it. But it's an excuse to bring on people that are experts. People love talking about themselves. Right? So create a podcast, no one even has to hear it. It can be absolute crap, but you could get invite people on and you get to talk to people. Sometimes you'll learn more in those like hours of interviewing people when you would have to pay like $2,000 or whatever to get contact or advice from those people. You know? So it's like a hack without  
Speaker 1    00:28:52    A doubt, man. I 100% agree with you. And one of the things that I know I'm going to go back to this, but I think the only way I want to throw this caveat, and I believe this as a sales leader, if you have a good leader, a good manager, talk to them about that as well. Your self-improvement maybe not, Hey, you don't have to give me, give me any money. Like we try to subsidize some of our self-learning for the rep, but if you can't give me any money, I at least want to take 30 minutes at 8:00 AM to eight 30. So a little bit during the work hours, I can't do this all on my time. That's not fair to me. And my work-life balance. Can we at least agree that 30 minutes, every other day, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or just Monday and Friday, whatever, whatever the setup needs to look like that you dedicate that block of time. And I literally in, and I map out, Hey, here's the podcast on list. I have a link to us. All I gotta do is go to my account and click the link. It launches the podcast. I'm good to go. But until it becomes a habit, that's what I would do. And I would highly recommend doing for anyone that's out there just as a quick,  
Speaker 2    00:29:58    I love that. Yeah, no, I think that's super smart. And I think to piggyback off that, I think a lot of times people will come to me. Like, man, I would love to have this tool. Maybe I'll see if my manager will buy it from, for me. Right. And I think that's a good approach. Like go to your manager and be like, Hey, this is a tool that I'm thinking of using. But one thing that you could do is like, Hey, I want to try out this tool. You know, like I'm going to do the demo or I'm going to pay for a month of it. Say, this does bring me results and say, I do book a few more demos. What do you guys possibly be interested in purchasing this license for me? If you show them that it even books, you mow one more demo a month, they're going to do it.  
Speaker 2    00:30:35    And they might even buy it for your whole team. And then your, all your peers will love you, right? Like, yeah. Like bring them to us, talk to them and tell them like, Hey, I'm looking at getting better. Unfortunately, I think the problem is is that a lot of sales managers don't really know how to sell either. You know? So like don't expect that. But I think going to them and showing them that you're trying to improve is gonna work wonders for you. Right. It's going to show your initiative. It's going to show that you're hungry and trying to grow. So at the very least they're going to be impressed by that one thing I would try not to do is like, this is something that gets me into problems, I think is that I think I'm doing good by doing that. Like bringing tools and like, Hey, I'm learning this. And people take it as like, I'm trying to tell them how to do their job or how to do things about it. So it definitely is a balancing act of like, you want to approach it as like a, you know, a very open conversation, but I think it's important. Right. Or ask what's that saying? Like, you know, don't ask, ask for forgiveness or don't ask  
Speaker 1    00:31:38    For forgiveness for permission sometimes. Yeah. All right. So we agreed on that one. So that was mine. What's your next one? This would be your number four, right?  
Speaker 2    00:31:48    Yeah. This is my number three. I think this is number four for us. Yeah. So find the channel that works best for you. Right? So in sales, like you have phone, you have email, you have social. I think a lot of times people get kind of caught up in like whatever's working for the team or whatever your manager tells you. Like, Hey, this, you know, our product sells best on the phone. Like you really need to hammer the phones, like call a hundred people a day. Right. And that's not always true for you, right? Like maybe you're uncomfortable on the phone. Maybe you don't really know how to think on your feet. Right. Maybe you're a very good writer. So use email and don't use email templates, like craft your own emails, maybe throw in, if you have a sequence or cadence already built out by your company, you know, create a strong email or go in there and change it up a little bit.  
Speaker 2    00:32:39    Right. Make it sound towards your voice and find that channel. Maybe it's social, you know, maybe you built a big brand and maybe you can connect with people easier than others find what works best for you. Prove those results. And then again, go back to your manager and say, Hey, is this cool? If maybe I send a few more emails and less dials a day, or maybe, you know, like I spend just emailing this day and then I'll do extra calls the next day. Like, you know, they just want to see that you're not trying to avoid work. Right. I think if you have a good manager, they're going to understand if you're like, Hey man, I'm not really good on the phones. I think email is more of my thing. This is how I'm going to make up for the extra, you know, phone calls that I don't make. Yeah. Be true to yourself. Right. Like, cause I think people get caught up and I need to be good and act like I'm good at everything.  
Speaker 1    00:33:30    I agree with you. That is almost in parallel. Mine were, but it's almost so mine was efficiencies. So find deficiencies. But I think that goes alongside with channel channel in the tool, like you said, tech stack as well. How do you take yourself from being able to send out five emails to 10 and to tend to emails, right? How do you drive efficiencies across the board? So you're maximizing your time.  
Speaker 2    00:33:57    Yeah. I think that's even better. Yeah. Figure out where you're doing bad and how to be more efficient in your job. I think that can help anywhere. Right?  
Speaker 1    00:34:06    Yeah. So I agree on that front. So I think driving efficiencies to your point channel because that goes alongside of it, right? Eric, because if you're finding the efficiency is not working on the phone or it's not working by email or LinkedIn or the social selling, whatever you want to call it, then identify it and change tests, you know, move on to something that is working for you, lean on that. And then when that starts to crumble, if it does then pivot and refocus and drive efficiencies in another way, whether that be through channel or whether it be doing testing other technologies, like you've mentioned that helps you maximize your outreach in some way, shape, form, or fashion, like a sales loft and outreach, one of those types of tools or whatever. I just don't think in today's day and age, if you don't have those efficiencies in place, you just don't have the ability to scale.  
Speaker 1    00:34:55    Like you can be the best SDR. You can be booking three meetings, but someone who has all the tools, that's maybe not even as good as you, they can just book 10 meetings just because they have the tools and the resources to turn those things out a lot faster. And that puts you at a disadvantage. So just to echo what you said earlier, if you're not getting that tech stack to your point, I'll pay for it for a month. But if you see it's improving these KPIs, will you help me as a sales leader? I would do that all day long.  
Speaker 2    00:35:24    Definitely. Yeah. And I think like one thing too, that I hear sometimes is like, you know, don't think that tools are also going to fix your process. They should help you do what you already do. Well better or more efficiently. Right? Like you're not going to get a program that's going to help you close more cold calls. Like you have like a battle card or like a call strip. Like if you suck at cold calling, it's not going to change you. Right. You know, my friend was talking about, if you can't call with a notepad and like a rotary phone, then you shouldn't be in sales. Right. And it's true. Like you need to be able to do it with minimal tools and abilities, but like you should focus on perfecting those things first and then invest in the tools that are going to help you scale and help you make those processes better. Don't use it as a, band-aid almost right. Like, cause I think sometimes people fall into that. They're like, oh man, this helps me do this more. But you know, they haven't learned how to efficiently do it first. So I think that's important too. And in a tool could be like Google sheets. They don't always have to be paid. I think  
Speaker 1    00:36:29    That's a great call out man. On your side, it's not everything costs a thousand, $2,004,000. I mean, some of these things are readily available to you. Hey, you're in sales. Even if they are. I remember the very first sales tech I implemented. It was me talking to a sales rep saying, Hey, I don't have any budget, but if you let me test it for 90 days, I'm sure I can go find it. Will you give me access for 90 days in my own environment? Yeah, sure. I will like get creative in figuring out how to get this in place because to your point earlier, if I can use it for free, get everyone else excited about it and actually help to drive meetings. The boss will pay for it for the whole team in an ideal world with the right.  
Speaker 2    00:37:09    Exactly. You're in sales, right? And here's a hack. Here's something I've learned at growing a business and buying a lot of tools and testing them out is that I will always work out a trial agreement, even if they don't have one or an extension to the trial agreement. Right. I'll say, Hey, I know you guys offer a month or you guys don't offer a month. Like, look, I'm not going to buy this product. Blindly. I need to pilot program. The hack is, is go through the pilot and then cancel. It always they'll give you either automatically. Or the rep will, you know, have the ability to give you a discount. I was testing out the software the a couple of weeks ago and I was like real back and forth. This kid was like a really good salesman. I wanted to give them business. But I was like, man, I'm evaluating a few tools.  
Speaker 2    00:37:53    And by the end of it, he's like, man, I can give you like 10% off. And I'm like, nah, man, I need it for this much. And he's like, okay, I can give you 25. And then I went to enter in my information and it popped up as like 50% off lifetime. I'm like, man, what do I even need you for? And he's like, oh dude, I didn't even know I was capable of doing that. And then this other software, I canceled it. And they were like, instead of $20 a month, do you want it for a dollar a month for the rest of your life? I'm like, no. So try that, like try a trial, cancel it, see what they give you at that. And that's another little hack. Awesome  
Speaker 1    00:38:26    Man. Okay. So we're going to call it. This is our six one. I think we're on six or so. We're somewhere there. You will add it up later. What is your next one?  
Speaker 2    00:38:35    My next one is going to be ask for help and leverage your network. And we kind of talked about this a little bit before, but this is something that I think I learned in, in different industries and stuff like that. But I talk a lot about like my career as being a professional poker player really helped me in sales and just in business is because in that industry, that's how you get better. Right? You surround yourself with people that are better than you. You talk strategy, you talk, Hey, how do I improve? And in sales and any other profession, shouldn't it be any different, right? Find the people that you think are good at your job, surround yourself with them and ask for help. Like it can be with your managers. It can be with your peers. It can be with, you know, whatever and, and leverage your network. Like we were talking about like create a podcast or, you know, ask to be on podcasts or, you know, get into micro communities and just reach out to people. You be surprised. People reach out to me and they ask me questions and I try to help them as much as I can. You'd be surprised how much, just admitting that you're not good at something or you need help with something. How far that will help you. No doubt,  
Speaker 1    00:39:39    Man. I love that one. And you know, that's as simple as I'm really boiling the ocean down. This is not necessarily a network, but along the same lines as you is, how heck, I mean LinkedIn search SDR, Boolean search, SDR, sales development, rep, SAS industry pull up everyone that, you know, send invites. Hey, I'm tr you're a fellow SDR. I'm an SDR, both in the SAS space. Would you like to knowledge share? Would you like to get to know one another? Maybe we could put our heads together and figure out a better way of doing things. Boom. Build your own network based on that and just share ideas like, Hey, I'm running into this using outreach. What are you running into that? Yeah, I am. Here's how I tweaked it. Oh wow. Let me try that. What is the old saying? Like nothing is truly created anymore is spawned from something right?  
Speaker 1    00:40:28    Every idea spawns from something else, right there is none. So anyway, I liked that idea of tap your network. So I think that's a good one. Mine. And this is, I think this might be the sales leader in me, but this was always beneficial to me. Not as a contributor is know your numbers is know what it takes to be successful. If someone tells you, it says you got to make 800 calls to get to meetings, but you know your numbers like, no, I need 100 calls to get five meetings and only need 10 emails. Like don't kill yourself, trying to get to right. If you know your numbers, like there's only two things you can control as an SDR, your activity and your skill that's for any salesperson. So if you don't know those numbers, you don't know what activity requires to get whatever level, whatever KPI you're tracking.  
Speaker 1    00:41:17    So if you know, Hey, I need a hundred dials to get to 20 contexts to get to one meeting, then do the numbers. If you got to get to five meetings, you got to know what you got to do. You're going to be burning the phone up all week, but then, you know, you also need to be on the backside, doing more set improvement to lower that activity level, to achieve what you want to achieve without burning yourself out and burning yourself on both ends of the candle. If you will. So know your numbers as my thoughts on that, Eric is that, is that both?  
Speaker 2    00:41:47    I love that. I think sometimes we can get caught up in numbers a little bit too much, but I think, I think it's important to not only look at like, okay, how many calls do I have to make in order to hit my ROI? Right? Like my conversions. Yeah. Because people say that it takes, you know, 10 touches in order to get a response. But that was never really my case. Like usually, you know, like sometimes, but like usually by like my fourth or fifth touch, I would know if an account was in or not, or, you know, I, I wouldn't invest as much into it or, or maybe I would let them cool down a little bit. But I think as well, I think what's important is like track what times and days that are things are working, right? Like, Hey man, things really seem to go, well, when I call in the morning at this time, or I call, you know, this industry or I call this decision-maker this persona, right? Like maybe you speak well to a certain persona, right? Like track that, write that down, you know, jot it down. Like I'm horrible at taking notes, but uh, you know, and I have a real, like crazy method to my madness. Right. What I do well is just like jotting things down on a notepad. So that's what I would do. I would make quick little notes and, and I'd go and I'd review that stuff, you know? So I do. I think that's important. I love that. That's awesome.  
Speaker 1    00:43:04    All right, man, you're up? So I got no numbers. What's your next one?  
Speaker 2    00:43:08    So my next one is avoid burnout. I think this is talked about a lot, but I think actually executing it is way different, right? Like if you're in sales, you have to understand this job is hard. Like don't let people fool. You, it's a grind, right? And you're not doing yourself any favors. You're not doing yourself. You're not doing your manager. You're not doing your company any favors by like killing yourself, right. Until like you're sick and whatever. Like you should be putting in extra hours and grinding out as much as you can, but there's a limit, right? Like I'm not telling you, Hey, eight hours a day clock out. Like I'm not that type of person. So I'm not going to tell you to do that. I definitely work after hours and, and prove on my own time. But there is something to be said about coming in fresh, you know, making sure you have a healthy mindset, having a good work life balance, having healthy relationships in your life, do some creative things like, you know, or some outlets like workout, meditate, make music, write poetry, paint, something that you like to do.  
Speaker 2    00:44:13    Right. So it's not all work. It's not all sales all the time. No,  
Speaker 1    00:44:18    I think that's a good one. And I think that ties really. Cause if you don't know your numbers and all, you know, someone's telling you got to make 500 dials, it's not sustainable. Like I can't be burning through 500 contexts sending out 300 emails. I'm going to blow brains out. Like I just can't do that day in and day out.  
Speaker 2    00:44:33    Right. Yeah. I think that goes into a lot. We're saying, you know, like we're, we're telling you to know your numbers because of this exact reason, right? Like it's, it's all about being more efficient. It's work smarter, not harder. It's not about just like banging your head against the wall and seeing what comes out. It's about coming at it with efficiency and you know, like, uh, this kind of zoned in tactile, just whatever. I don't know. I know  
Speaker 1    00:45:00    What you mean. Yeah. No, that makes sense. So here's my next one. And this is going to be pretty straight forward. You, you actually, you ever actually mentioned this at the tail end of the last tip you provided. And I like how you, the context you provide it because actually that's a little bit different than I thought of it. I put be creative. And you said that the last you were using that from, Hey, step outside yourself. You know, if you have an outlet like music, go run, go take a walk, get away decompress. That's awesome. That definitely. And that's not how I was looking at it. So I think that's a good call out by the way. I think that's really good. I find myself on a daily basis taking 20 minutes just to go on a walk, get away from the computer screen decompress.  
Speaker 1    00:45:43    So I love that my version of be creative is everyone's doing the same damn thing. When you break put like, Hey, um, Hey, we try 484% ROI. You should take a meet, like change it up something. That's just going to shake up the world. Now you may have caught your boss. I get all that. But I'm never going to like, I personally, if you're trying something you're just trying, like, I actually would give you applause versus slapping your hand. Now, if it didn't work or you rubbed someone the wrong way, let's not do it again. If it doesn't make sense, but if you're trying to do something that's Hey, I'm trying to get outside the noise, Mr. Boss. And here's what I think. Just give me five contexts. Do what if I bat a zero average, I won't do it again. Great. Pick five and go knock yourself out. Like try, like that goes back to take initiative, take the initiative to say, Hey, everyone's sending out the same thing, Sam. I don't want to do it. It's not working for me. Can I do X, Y, and Z? That's my thoughts on that.  
Speaker 2    00:46:44    I'm actually jealous that that's one of your tests because that's like, it's something that I'm actually really passionate about is like, yeah, just be different. Just do something different in sales, as a decision maker, as like someone who's getting those emails and stuff like that, it gets ridiculous. Right? How many people are just like pitching in your connection requests? And they're just using like the most scummy, like boring sales pitches ever. And really like when people reach out to me and it's as simple as this being like, Hey Eric, you know, I love your podcast. I was listening to this episode. Blah-blah-blah I hired a guy one time off of just that. He was like, man, I really love like what you're doing at above ground. I love like, you know, your podcasts. And I was like, oh yeah, what's your favorite episode? You know, just like call his BS. And then he was like, oh, you know, Ian Kodiak the selling with purpose episode. And I was like, you know what? I think you're full of it. But that's the correct answer I'm listening. Right. And like, yeah, it's just, uh, it's just do something different, man. Like try different things. And I know that can be tough as an SDR sometimes because you have your metrics, but try something different on  
Speaker 1    00:47:55    That side to kind of be really specific. Given an example, we're trying this, I'm going to say we were doing this the right way by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm a big believer in, okay, you have your ABM accounts. You're going after Mr. STR, here's your pool. But there should be a subset like three, four or five accounts that you have carte blanche. You could test do whatever the hell you want to do with them. If you want to send them a gift every day, four times a day. Not, not here's your budget, but knock yourself out. Just try it. Who cares if it works, it works. If it doesn't no harm, no foul. And you know, I found that a, I think that hopefully that helps the rep feel like, okay, I, I have, I have some ownership of this, and I can kind of toy around with some ideas, but it's funny.  
Speaker 1    00:48:41    Cause I've seen that to your point. I've gotten those calls. I've gotten those emails way too much and it's the things that people do above and beyond. I, I had, I don't know, I did a poll. I don't remember on LinkedIn. And then it got a lot of response. It got like 18,000 views, like seven, 800 poll. Like I'm like who who's voting on this. But anyway, it was about, should you call someone's cell phone cold call someone's cell phone. And I had just gotten a cold call, which made the poll. I hated it. I was walking into the grocery store. I had a bad day. I thought it was my wife. Actually. I didn't look at the caller ID. I just answered the whole long story. It was not a good day. And I just I'm getting anxiety  
Speaker 2    00:49:22    Just with that premise, man.  
Speaker 1    00:49:24    I just, I lift the guy up, but it really wasn't his fault. It really, he was just doing his job by Mike. Never call me on this. So on. And so I just put the poll out there and the majority of it was yes, you should. It was a lot of the sales guys all say, yeah, yeah, you should. But if you looked at the notes, it was mainly the prospects. Cause I can look under the hood of who's voting. So there's a disconnect. Right? And what I would, how I'm trying to tie this back is there was actually a rep that actually pinged me on LinkedIn and said, Hey Sam, I saw your poll. And you mentioned that you don't like to be called on your cell phone. And since you don't, I was going to text you happy face or emoji, but I reframed, how would you like me to get ahold of you? What would be the best way for me to like that told me, Hey, you've done some dude D like, that's cool, man. Like, this is the best way.  
Speaker 2    00:50:15    Yeah. And it's simple, right? Like, like what he did is simple. Right. And I think like, it's awesome that you, as a sales leader and manager, like you have this thought process. Right? Because I think sometimes we think like it's a waste of time, like going and checking up on people and doing this intense research. But really it's simple. We're not telling you to do anything crazy. It's just being respectful, being human. And yeah. Like, you know, sometimes I would be desperate and I'd call people's cell phones. And I got torn a few like doing that. But what I would do is I would tell them like, Hey, look like I messaged you on LinkedIn. I emailed you. I called you at the office. You didn't respond. Like, all I need is for you to tell me, Hey, I'm not interested. Right. That can be a sensitive subject. But honestly, I don't really mind if people call my cell phone, like, or text me or whatever, that's the easiest way to get ahold of me as long as it's not off hours. And yeah, you might catch me on a bad day like Sam, you know? And I might think of someone else. The local dialer, I think is questionable. I used to do that to kind of trick people. Um, maybe just call from your own number. I think that's kind of, if you're going to call people's cell phone, don't try to trick them  
Speaker 1    00:51:28    A good point. You bring up because you know, Verizon and all these, you know, they're those cost BAMS, robo killer, all those. We're really starting to hone in on that local dialing. And that's going to be a challenge, but that's a whole separate podcast, but all right, your last one. And then I think we should be good. I think that's nine or 10. We're close to 10. At least we said 10 is going to be pretty close.  
Speaker 2    00:51:48    So I think those are all five of mine, but I'll try to just come up with one off the top. Like just have fun. It's a job at the end of the day. Like, don't be so worried about hitting quota or getting fired. I see this too much with people that actually really respect that they are too worried about getting fired or you know, like not getting promoted or something like that. Piggyback off the take control of your own career. Just have fun. If you get fired or let go from your job, it's not meant to be. You might actually find your next best opportunity. Like it took me getting fired as an SDR to go and start my own business. And it's been great, man. It's it was, it was meant to be, it was fate. Now I'm doing all the school stuff and I'm really enjoying it. Like I, you know, I have people really, really close to me that are like, so scared to ask for a promotion or even look for other jobs because of like the repercussions of it. Right. When it's like, everything's going to be all right, man. Like, you'll, you'll find another job, whatever you'll hit quota someday. Like just, just treat it like a game. Like it's fun. And you know, like, definitely you want to be serious in it, but don't take it so seriously all the time.  
Speaker 1    00:53:01    No, I think that's a good way of wrapping it up, man, from a top 10, because I think we lose sight of that way too often. The fast paced nature of our industry and industry is sales industry in general. It's all about the numbers and what have you done for me lately? And it's very easy to get caught up in that. And you know, as well as I do, if you're not performing, it even makes it rough because you keep digging yourself deep because you try and try. You can try even harder. And by doing so you keep digging yourself even deeper and said taking a breath, getting outside of it and it's okay, let me just breathe. Let me get back to the basics. Let me have some fun with this. And typically that's where the creativity lives is in the fun, right? That's where you start saying, Hey, why have I been sending this guy the same minutiae every day? Of course, he's not replying to me. It's bull. Let me do this. That's where the creativity, creativity doesn't live in, in pain and sorrow and fear.  
Speaker 2    00:53:53    Dude, sales is fun. Like if you do everything that me and Sam just talked about, like you're going to be in a good place, right? Like you're going to be employed. Employable. People are going to want you on their teams. If your manager, if your company doesn't value you, then go find someone that does, right. Because there's a ton of companies out there, you know, invest in yourself. And really like also part of this too, is like geek out on this stuff. Like that's what I do when I'm into something or I have a profession or I have an interest, I get obsessive about it and it can be unhealthy on some points, but it's really helped me grow as a person, as a professional is like, just get obsessive about it. Like, man, I want to find the best ways to do this. And I want to find instant, surround myself with the people that do this well and just find something that you like about it. Cause if you can't do that, if you can't get excited and passionate about your job as an SDR, as an AED, as a manager or whatever, then you need to find something else. Man, life is too short. If you can't get yourself fired up about it, then it's not the industry. It's not the career for you. No doubt, man.  
Speaker 1    00:55:00    So how does the audience get a hold of you connect with you, learn more about your podcast, which is awesome. Once again, tell the audience a little bit about  
Speaker 2    00:55:07    That. Unfortunately, the lowly STR podcast we've been kind of on a hiatus. It happens all the time. If you're listening to the show, you probably are pissed at me because of that. And you send me messages about it. Sorry. Like business has been crazy. My personal life has been in like shambles lately. We'll be releasing again soon. You can just look up low, the STR podcast. You can find it on any of the major platforms. You can find it@thelowlystrdotbuzzsprout.com as well. You can find me on LinkedIn at the lowly SDR, just look up Eric Smith. I'm sure we have a bunch of other social channels out there that I don't really post on. But at the lowly SDR at above ground, that's a, B U V E G R O U N D. You can find that you can go to my website, any of those. So I'm sure we'll have links in the description as well, but yeah, connect with me, man. Especially on LinkedIn. That's probably the best place to find me. That's where I post most content connect with me. Like let's chat. Let's talk about sales. Talk about, you know, I'm really interested in the marketing to anything mental health, anything like that? Like come talk chat. Yeah. Let's just have fun. Get to know each other.  
Speaker 1    00:56:10    That's awesome. Yeah. We will definitely have links in the show notes to make it easy on everybody to find LinkedIn above ground, the whole nine yards, the podcast, the whole nine yards to make it easy. I mean, that's where it all begins, right? I'll be, that's how it began us and getting this all set up is just reaching out and starting a conversation, you know, and finding some synergies and that's how sales should be. It should be organic. It shouldn't be over-thought. I think we over-complicate sales way too much. I'm appreciative of your time brother. And thanks again for coming  
Speaker 2    00:56:39    On. This is absolute pleasure, Sam. Yeah. Love the show. Can't wait to see what you guys do in the future. And yeah, I had a great time. This is awesome.  
Speaker 0    00:56:49    Thank you for listening to the sales samurai podcast with your house, Sam Capra. Be sure you subscribe to our podcast and visit <inaudible> dot IO and join the conversation. Access show notes and discover bonus content.