Next Steps are everything in Sales

Speaker 0    00:00:01    Coming to you from Orlando, Florida, Orlando, Florida, and streaming around the world around the world. You are not tuned in to the sales samurai podcast. The only B2B sales podcast, providing unfiltered unapologetic views and tactics directly from the sales trenches. Here's your host, Sam Capra.  
Speaker 1    00:00:30    Well, welcome to another episode of the sales samurai. Thanks for listening. Before we begin, do us a favor as always take a moment to subscribe and download all today's show. We're going to be discussing something that is really near and dear to my heart. It's really around driving next steps, which I think in my conversation is fundamentally the most important thing you can be doing to driving deal closure, deal, acceleration, all that fun stuff that we get to be doing in B2B sales. And I have an amazing guest with me today, Mr. Tyler Cole, Tyler, how are you  
Speaker 2    00:01:02    Man? Soon? Well, Sam, thanks for having me.  
Speaker 1    00:01:05    Well, my pleasure brother, and you're out there in Austin, Texas. How's life in Austin.  
Speaker 2    00:01:10    Austin is beautiful right now. I got to go to New York next week. I'm not looking forward to  
Speaker 1    00:01:16    The veterans of the deal is Austin, for sure. So those are favorite Tyler. I mean, I know, I know you are all over LinkedIn, give the audience a little bit of a background, kind of what you've been doing. I know you from a couple of different things, but kind of give the audience just a quick background on yourself.  
Speaker 2    00:01:30    Well, you're getting me back to my roots. I used to do the lowly STR podcasts paused it because of the three things I'll tell you I'm doing now. I got a little bit overwhelming, but happy to be on and taking a guest appearance this time. But, uh, enterprise a over reach desk. I also do consulting on really building out sales development functions. So messaging hiring, it's just building out the process to actually be able to source pipeline for anywhere from like a seed funded, to like a series B funded company. Um, and then I also do what I call kind of anti recruiting. So I work with individual clients that are undervalued by market standards, top achievers and help them go out and increase salary, find the right role. Um, and instead of working with individual hiring partners and things like that, I actually charged that individual, nothing up fronts. And I would like take 10% of their income increase. So really kind of cohesive model that helps all three parties involved.  
Speaker 1    00:02:32    That's fantastic, man. You're not doing enough. You can you add a few more things to your list? That's not enough you're doing Tyler.  
Speaker 2    00:02:38    I had to hire someone like I had to hire someone for just, I don't know what that title is. I'm not an executive, so it's not like a executive assistant, but it's  
Speaker 1    00:02:47    Something in the realm of that.  
Speaker 2    00:02:49    It's a good problem to have. This will be getting into my 16 to 18 hour a day probably today. That's  
Speaker 1    00:02:57    Awesome, man. Hey, tell us a little bit about how did you get started in sales? I just curious, like, what was your kind of your origin story? If you don't mind me asking  
Speaker 2    00:03:06    I was all over the place. So I was at, uh, Auburn university has majoring in international business that that's where you go. I left after three years. So like a great GPA. I got bored. I went and started doing music, journalism. I ended up starting a record label, uh, lived overseas, doing that for a little while, got to the point where I didn't want to work like 10:00 PM to 10:00 AM anymore. So what did I do? I went to Arizona state and they actually didn't have an international business program. So I moved over to business Torres and thought I wanted to, uh, you know, manage hotels, found out what that grind was about. Like 70 to 80 hour work weeks. The travel discounts couldn't really be used because he didn't have the time to use them. And you're not paid that well, but I actually built out at the, it was the Western in downtown Phoenix, like an upsell environment that they didn't really understand at the time. And I'm like, wait, I brought you guys like $400,000 in revenue. I think I'm supposed to be selling things that I'm not getting paid on any of this. Like I'm just driving revenue for fun. Right? So I ended up taking like an outside sales gig, a company called worldwide express, like straight up prospecting, physical businesses with a tiny territory in Phoenix, Arizona. Um, graduated from that. So a company called Nextiva, um, and then Nextiva over to send, DOSO send DOSO over to the competitor reached desk where I'm at now.  
Speaker 1    00:04:34    Fantastic man. So obviously sales. Wasn't your first call? You weren't a five-year-old boy looking up at your dad saying data. I want to be a sales guy. I want to go knocking on doors or picking up the phone and making $400 a week kind of fell into it by for lack of better terminology, fair to say, or am I off base a bit?  
Speaker 2    00:04:55    Yeah, I mean, I had people skills and then I realized what a people skills, like, how do you actually get paid for those skills? And I wasn't really exposed to it either. I'd like to think like if somebody told me about software sales and opportunity there, I probably wouldn't have even been in college. And I would have been doing that at a much younger age. So it was attractive when I just got exposed to it, but never really had that upbringing.  
Speaker 1    00:05:17    Fantastic. So how long I'm just trying to get a reference, how old I am a and B how long have you been doing this now? Well, you've been in sales ballpark  
Speaker 2    00:05:24    It for me since seven years.  
Speaker 1    00:05:28    So I always liked this question because varies depending on how long you've been doing it, but even in seven years, a lot has changed. I'm just curious, like, what's your thoughts, like from what has changed for the better what's changed for the worst, in your opinion, in sales, from what you started to what you're seeing?  
Speaker 2    00:05:45    I don't have much for the worst. I'd say like, what I think is like the beat your door down and try and sell you the hard sale. Like I think that's kind of dissipated and like, those people are struggling now or being pushed out of those rules, like being replaced by like product led growth and other functions like that. Like moving more towards like, Hey, are you an expert? Can you consult? Can you help me come up with a solution? I think those people will be here no matter what processes get automated and things like that. So it's, it has actually led to me being a lot more successful too, because I'd try and really educate myself and just sell in an honest way that, you know, at times people I've worked for people that are like, why did you, why do you tell him that? Like, why did you tell him we're bad at that? And I'm like, oh, that's I have to like, that's how the whole sales that it's trust came from that. So I'm going to keep doing that.  
Speaker 1    00:06:33    Yeah. That's cool, man. Listen, I, 100% agree that I think the shift from the old, uh, Glengarry Glen Ross stays of always be closing is definitely shifted. I think it's for a number of reasons, I think to your point, and again, buyers are a lot more savvy than they used to be. I mean, there's just an understanding in today's day and age. I think the profession is upgraded. I think for, I truly believe that it was a move in there. I think that's the most positive thing in our profession. And it has happened that we have tried to be more consultative. And I know that that's probably taken a lot longer in certain industries. Obviously SAS, it's probably been a little bit faster than most, but I agree with you 100%. Any other thoughts on that?  
Speaker 2    00:07:14    No, I was just going to say a sling and telecom, maybe a little bit different world that hasn't caught up quite as much, but yeah, SAS is a different animal.  
Speaker 1    00:07:22    I mean, when, when I started, I was slinging uniforms, I was a uniform salesperson for sentence now that's yeah, that I don't, I don't wanna, I don't wanna offend any light on the uniform business side, but I have a distinct feeling that hasn't changed very much. You're still probably dialing for dollars and beating down garages and things of that nature. That's awesome. But let's talk a little bit about this, cause this is, you know, we're both in the SAS space. I think this is applicable for really anyone that's selling in today's day and age. Right? I think you'd agree, Tyler. I mean, correct me by all means that today's day and age deals have gotten harder. I mean, I think all the studies are saying, Hey, deals is taking longer to close complex sales deals. The average deal, the close rates gone down, all the things that you don't want to go down are not going in the right direction. As you're looking at the landscape, like, what do you think? The fundamental, just like the biggest skill that is lacking in today's environment? Like what do you just, when you look at someone you're talking to another rep or you've observed or your training or whatever the case might be, what is the biggest missing component that you see in the process or on their skill set or whatever the case might be?  
Speaker 2    00:08:27    I mean, I think it's simple. I think it's just active listening, like actually understanding on the front end, why the hell these people should have urgency and why they should look at this and that presents itself. And like people running like the stock demo, like here's what we do. Here's how we provide value to you. It's like, but how do I provide value to you individually? So I'm like, why did you come to this call? What are you trying to solve? And like everything after that, if I haven't done that properly, like you're gonna start to see the leaks and like the other parts of the process as well,  
Speaker 1    00:08:57    You're saying, so really it comes down to your ability to understand what the customer truly needs and then matching your solution if there's a match. So I think that's one part of that trust component earlier. Sometimes there's not a fit. We can't be always be naive. And just trying to shove a round peg in a square hole is we got to make sure that we're doing the right thing. And it's a win-win for both parties, but understanding what their need is and then crafting the story to coincide it and kind of draw on those opportunities.  
Speaker 2    00:09:25    Yeah. That leads into, you know, the topic that we were discussing before the show, like, how do I, how do I turn that into a next step, push urgency? Like, I can't do that if I'm just asking for it or if I haven't done that front end, like actually understood what they're trying to solve for. And I think that's what a lot of these reps run into are. They're like, well, I mean, I tried, they're telling me that they just got to go back to their boss or whatever. It's like, yeah. I haven't. Why would they talk to you? Like what was the reason to come back for a second call other than you wanted them to?  
Speaker 1    00:09:54    Yeah. Like, let's talk about that a bit because I actually, this is my, and this is not an easy one. I think this comes with time and skill and the right mentorship and the right training and everything that you got to do in today's environment. But I think next steps are either way too, and maybe not overvalued as the right terminology, but we're missing that like the next, and when I think of a next step, most common people would think like, gotta be some hard ass. Like, Hey, when are we going to sign this contract? Like, that's the next step? Like that's closing always be closing. Well, I like to think of next steps as what is the logical micro step like, Hey, listen, what do we want? Does that make sense to you? What is your process? How do those two things align and how do we mutually go down this path together to figure out if there's a fit here? Like how do you think of next steps? What's kind of your thought process around next steps and how you guys approach those.  
Speaker 2    00:10:45    Yeah. Like knowing what that pain was on the front end. Like I don't have, there, isn't a logical second step in my sales process. Like it could be a technical demo than ops person. It could be, Hey, talk to my BDR team about how they can actually use this tool. It could be, you know, I need to really review ROI and understand how this is going to affect conversion rates. So if I understand that, like I'm doing them a favor, I'm like, Hey, I'm going to go back and produce this asset. Like get you all of this relevant data that was important to you. And you know, why don't we like look at that on like Tuesday, like, oh yeah, I would love to do that. Like, you're getting to the point, they're motivated to show up for that. They want that piece of information.  
Speaker 2    00:11:26    You also have to tease them a little bit. Like I have to say, I have that. Maybe I already have that. Like in most cases I am actually building out like customized like resources for these people. Part of having a marketing department for four months as a company. So many marketing machine on my side too. But giving them like the teaser to come back for that step of making it like about them, not like, oh, well we had this, the decision-makers see, how do we get Steve on a call? Like maybe he might just sign like half the time. Like I don't need to talk to the CMO really to get the deal signed by the CML. I have to prove it out to digital marketer and the field marketer and the head of sales development and all these different people that have a vested stake in my process that reached us.  
Speaker 1    00:12:08    That makes sense. There's something I heard you say that when you kick that off, you sell this. I really don't have a logical step. Like it really just depends on kind of the ebbs and flows of the call. But I think the one thing that you kind of teased out in that is you said, Hey, I've priority. Got it. Is that you've planned those for those scenarios. Right. And it's not just, I'm winging it and hoping for the best, like, Hey, if a doesn't equal B then maybe C or D and E might equal, like you have these scenarios kind of in mind. So there's a strategy behind it. And then just pulling that card out when it makes sense, based on the conversation that you're having, is that fair? Did I hear that correctly? Tyler?  
Speaker 2    00:12:45    Yeah. It's like my individualized sales charter, like there's one of 14 combinations of how this deal process can play out like that. It's we talked to enough departments where that is true, but they're solving for one of these things. They're using a competitor and it's a pain around that. Or they don't have enough pipeline. Everybody doesn't have enough pipeline, but sales acceleration, like, you know, we're hiring 500 people and we need to get things out to 'em. So I know kind of like, based on those first, I'm making that note like five minutes in the call where, Hey, this is probably like, where I want to go with this and I'm going to validate that throughout the call. And then I'm going to verify that at the end to where it's like, I've understood, I've had these takeaways, it sounds like you need to solve for a, B and C. Like what if we get together and talk about a, B and C with this person. So having that understanding of like, what are my routes and, and part of that, like you can't fake, like it's like industry knowledge of actually being a trusted advisor. I'm lucky enough to sold in my space for a couple of years and like Ben at the largest competitor to some, I have that little arsenal of information too,  
Speaker 1    00:13:52    Without a doubt. What you've said there to me from that standpoint is that there's preparation. Obviously it's like mix and match, but really the scenario is not an unimaginable mix and match opportunities. They're like, you've done it enough where you know that it's going to be one of five or six next steps that you're going to be asking for. It just depends on the conversation. So I always say this, but the simple fact that next steps when I've seen it, when I've trained and I've coached and even I go through it, that seems to be one of the type of things that flubs people up the most. I don't know if we just, over-complicate it overthink of it. Maybe we're not prepared. Like what do you typically, what do you kind of see as the main reasons next steps aren't established next steps are not presented. Like I've come out of a call with a rep previous and like, Hey, what's the next steps? Well, we didn't get a chance to get to it. Like,  
Speaker 2    00:14:44    Yeah, that one's so bad. And like, I felt on me, like, it's like, I, we get different, we try and get 45 minutes emo upfront. And it's like, maybe they schedule 30 though. And that's like, wow. You know, I didn't have, I only had 30 minutes stop at 26 minutes. Like figure it out. Like, it doesn't matter. It keeps selling. Like you don't know when you're ever going to hear from them again. But like at one thing I instituted that was like a drastic shifts in terms of like how that affected like next steps, right. Was one like the initial organization, like stepping into the call. So like before every call, um, I do the 20 minute prep with like the BDR that sourced the meeting, like understand exactly what they discovered. Who did they talk to? Like, did somebody pass you to this individual after you talk to another person?  
Speaker 2    00:15:28    So that's giving me like bullets points, 1, 2, 3 of what I think that next step might be attach that to, okay. Today I'm talking to a sales development leader versus a marketing leader. Okay. I know how we sourced the meeting. I know a little bit about how we got there. I know what your persona type is. So now my discovery and like leading into like their potential pain is going to be centered around that. And as long as they validate that I know exactly where to take them there. And if they don't, you know, I can ask that question and it makes a lot of sense why I'm asking that question. They're not looking at you like, oh, whoa, where did that come from? It's like, oh, that makes a lot of sense that you would think that way, but we're structured a little bit differently.  
Speaker 2    00:16:06    So I think that preparation is like incredibly key, but also like the followup attached to that. Like, even if they give you the next step or if there's some ambiguity, which like sometimes there is like, there's four more people and you have to send the calendar link or give the availability. Like I instituted that gets send my incentive, very detailed recap of everything. Summary of pain within one hour, I add them on LinkedIn. I I'm a gifting platform. So I send them a gift and I actually track this data around, like what happened when I did that and didn't do that. Or when I did all three of these things within an hour, I got the next call, 84% of the time. But when I subtracted any one of those components, like, you wouldn't even think like the LinkedIn thing matters, but you're literally getting in their subconscious three ways.  
Speaker 2    00:16:49    Like you've said, I listened to everything you said, and like my competitors, aren't doing this. I know that, like, I know they're not doing that summary. I'm sending you a gift, which I think we have the best platform for that. So the gift itself is pretty powerful. Then I'm adding you on LinkedIn or you're like, shit, this guy is hitting me. Every place I live. It's like a marketer and sales rep. So it's like, even like the LinkedIn one I'm like that won't affect things. It did. Like I dropped to like about 60% when I took out one of those components within an hour, take out two and it's like 33%. And this is like, I could send this the next morning, like two hours later. Like it was that much difference based on like the one to two hours. Like  
Speaker 1    00:17:29    That's pretty powerful. So there's a few things done back there because I love what you said. And I think this all connects to next steps, right? Because, and I'm going to walk through. Cause I think what you said really resonates, Hey, the preparation you do with their BDR, right? What can I glean ahead of this call? So I'm as efficient. I think that's the right term. And I'm efficient. It shows that I understand their business. It shows that I've done my due diligence. And it also allows you to be more concise with your time, right? Because now what that leads to is you're not bumping up against three, four minutes left in the call and now you're rushed to get to the next step. Do you try to figure it out on the fly? It's a lot of pressure. A and B just in real time, you're probably going to miss a couple of things.  
Speaker 1    00:18:11    So I liked that piece of it. One of the things I do, Tyler, and I've done it in a mentor actually gave it to me was I always confirm time at the top of the call. Like if I got 30 minutes, I always say, Hey, I think we've got about 30 minutes. Is that still good for you? Do you have a hard stop to your point? Cause that guy might say, yeah, I got a hard stop, but I got a hard stop at 25 minutes. Well that now that allows me to map that I got to stop about 20 minutes in, cause I want five minutes for next steps and just understanding the process a little bit better or how we can align on next steps at least. So I think that's, and I don't hear a lot of people do that. You know, I've been on a ton of sales calls, people trying to sell me something, but I don't see that a lot. And I think that's a quick tip that I would provide is that at least tells you what your parameters are on. That call allows you to prepare appropriately.  
Speaker 2    00:18:57    Yeah, a hundred percent. That's uh, our CROX solely like implemented that in like our, our BDR BDRs actually sit on that first discovery call. It's like a collaborative effort, but they all do. That's the upfront contract. So you have a hard stop at this time. And that gives me the knowledge to like, if I know there would the competitors, it's a 30 minute call and they're telling me they have a hard stop I'm slack in my BDR. Like, Hey, I'm going to, I'm stepping in a little early on this one. I need, I need 27 minutes, not 23 minutes to do this. Right. So it's given us that clarity around that as well.  
Speaker 1    00:19:28    Fantastic. That's what I want to piggyback. So a preparation, I think that's the big thing I'm taking from that is, Hey, what can we glean prior to walk into this call? That way we're seen as experts. We're also being as efficient as possible. Let's lock down some time, make sure we understand how much time do we actually have so we can adjust accordingly. Then I like the final piece that you were talking about is, is the follow-up. And I know there's a lot that you want to talk about. The follow-up is a big one. And I actually believe that's just like follow up like the whole week. Like I'm actually shocked. Sometimes when I walk off of a sales call, people are selling me. I never get an email sometimes for three or four days,  
Speaker 2    00:20:08    Or you get the stock. Here's 17 links and like a generic case. I'm like, don't send me anything. Like don't send me nothing before he said, be that like, I know you copy and paste that I've seen people put the wrong name in there. They copy and paste the bell from another email. It's like, come on, give it to like guy. I actually blocked 30 minutes after the call for that. So like sometimes you gotta move it around if you're back to back. But recap, shouldn't take me more than 15 minutes. I know I have 30. I got it. Color coded, organized. I'm never gonna forget to follow up and I can always move that 30 minutes slot, but at least I have the structure to not forget any of the details.  
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Speaker 1    00:21:25    So let me ask you that because it is it's, low-hanging fruit is table stakes. Like the people that do that, like you, like you said, it separates you from the pack. Obviously you seem to know what the competition is not doing that recap or not sending a quick LinkedIn connection and they're not gifting. Right. And you said, Hey, why do all three 84% of the time I'm getting that next call. If I miss one of them or I take out two that things drop them a concrete balloon. So like, why? Like that's not that hard. That's not a lot of skill. Just to recap, a call to send only like, why is not more doing that? Is, are we just too busy? Like, what is, what am I missing here, Tyler, in your opinion,  
Speaker 2    00:21:59    I mean, I'm really like diagnosing the hell out of this call and the recap and like giving them ever. So I do think it is like a lot of like effort and like paying attention to that process. Like not here's what we do. Here's exactly how you described your band out. It affected you. And the way this applies to that and like, I, this may not be like this. You may disagree with this, but I, I look at this, like I'm trying to almost run like SMB transactional deals that like the enterprise and mid-market level where I'm like, you want pricing. And I see that you have a timeline on all this. I'm building a custom proposal with everything that we discussed with how we're going to evaluate that, that half the time these deals close so quickly. Cause like, they're just like shit yet.  
Speaker 2    00:22:40    I have everything. I don't really want to talk to more people about this. You gave me everything. The price is fair. You were honest with me. You know, I've run deal cycles for companies at 10,000 plus the last two weeks and deal cycles with six employees the last two years. So it's like, if you drive these people, especially if you sell a product, it's not like overly complicated. You're not selling like data privacy technology or like cybersecurity. Like you're selling MarTech, you're selling sales tech, you know, the four other things that they're going to look at, like drive the hell out of like urgency. Like don't, don't just wait and hope. Like I'm trying to get the next call, like 24 to 48 hours later too. I'm not trying to like stretch it one to two weeks later.  
Speaker 1    00:23:23    That makes sense of there's a couple of things I took from that, that you said a couple of times actually use the urgency I'm trying to, and it's all stemming from your preparation, your due diligence, because you know, if you don't do your part, what does that ultimately do? It slows down their part or could slow down their apart, which is actually counterproductive to you. So by doing some of these things, you're actually streamlining the process even further to make that an easier decision, a faster decision that could be run in a pretty quick timeframe. Is that fair to say  
Speaker 2    00:23:51    The NFT Volta built the trust. Like why do they need to go somewhere else? Like why, if they've built the trust and you've solved for all their needs and you've given them all their resources, like the biggest place people miss is like, oh, I'm going to go to this. Why am I letting this mid-level employee sell my product for me? And how are they going to sell my product for me, they're going to like put together three shitty PowerPoint slides and like present it to a CRO after that, like I'm telling these people, how do you want to present this? I'm going to build it for you. Whatever that is. If I got to build a customer ROI calculator, a deck, a one sheet like I'll go build it. I'll spend two hours on that because my deal cycles four hours. I spent three hours after the first call. It was a lot of work. I spent four hours in that one day. That's how I ended up in a 16 or 18 hour day when I'm doing this. But that other guy who waited and drip this and worked it for six months, spent 20 hours to eventually close the I'd rather put the work in upfront and realize their reward quickly and not sit on pipeline. Basically.  
Speaker 1    00:24:52    I'm willing to bet that what you're also on the backend, but it also allows you to cut bait sooner. I mean, it allows you to cut bait faster as well, right? I mean, if those things aren't moving and you're doing your part, that's a pretty good red flag for you that, Hey, this just may not be what I think it is. Or kind of, I don't want to say disqualify it out, but it allows you to make quicker decisions on what's real pipe and what's not real pipeline. Is that fair to say,  
Speaker 2    00:25:16    Yeah, you got the visibility and I don't care. I got like, I have enough move on. I don't want to work this deal. I don't want to invest the time because I got somebody else that, that is worth the time that's worth the effort on my side. You can tell, like you can tell if these people have like an actual moment of urgency or you did a shitty job on the front end of like actually discovering that. Yeah.  
Speaker 1    00:25:36    I think those are things that, and I'm always shocked by this because I actually will go back and thinking to myself, well, why don't I do that anymore? I'm actually shocked by sometimes just the things that we just don't do for whatever reason. Like, there's been a couple of things. Like I used to do this and this and this diligently and it worked. And then all of a sudden, along the way I overcomplicated it, I over-thought, it, somebody told me to do a different way or I saw something or read something and now I'm doing it a different way, not got the net results. And I just like, I liked the approach of trying to like how, like you got the data, right? You're saying, Hey, I know when I do this within an hour or two hours, here's the net result. 84% of the time I'm getting a next step. Right. That's documentable. That's what you could track. Uh, getting to that is key. And then saying the course, I'm assuming you probably do that after every first meeting that you have.  
Speaker 2    00:26:26    Yeah, absolutely. And like, sometimes people are telling you to stop doing this too. Like part of this problem is like, let's scale a process. Like I saw in a way where you're going to listen to my gong call and be like, how the hell does this deal close? And what are you guys talking about? But you can't standardize every process. I use 15 minutes to discovery and then the AE comes in and he demos for 12 minutes and show Salesforce and shows this. It's like, oh, people are bored. And they've seen this. And like software products for the most part are two comparable from like a visibility standpoint, like Salesforce and HubSpot do similar things. Sonos on reached us, like appear to do similar things. Like you got to sell that I'm the person you want to work with, where the company that's going to be a better for you.  
Speaker 2    00:27:11    And like, um, I've been in these situations where it's caused a lot of like, uh, it's caused a lot of stress at jobs that I've had in the past from like, I'm sorry. No, like this, this works like, I'm going to keep doing this. Like I need to also sell. If you tell me to do this, you're still going to fire me. If I don't hit my number, even if I use your standardized process. So like I'm going to go out, swinging and fire me while I'm exceeding quota. Like, if that's what you want to do, we're going to go that route. But like not like sometimes you have to go a little rogue and say, Hey, if what other people on my team are doing, doesn't work. Like I'm going to have to do things my own way  
Speaker 1    00:27:47    Without a doubt. So you came to those up next steps and you can't w there's a couple things you said, Hey, listen, depending on what the call is. So I want to net this out for the listeners. You we've done the preparation. We're going into that call being as efficient as possible to make the best use of the time we have built for the client, both for ourselves. And then when we get kind of at a point in the call, we're probably transitioning really into the next step portion of the call. I like what you said, I missed it earlier, but you mentioned, Hey, I like to reverb realize where like, almost regurgitate, Hey, here's what I heard from you. Did I get that correct? Get their buy-in like, I missed that piece. Is that a conscious thing that you do you think that's like? And that's actually a step I actually focus on is making sure at the end, my segue, as I said, I'm making this up. Segue is, Hey, here's what I heard. Can I get a confirmation? Is that kind of your segue, natural segue into the next step portion of things? Or I'm overthinking that a bit.  
Speaker 2    00:28:45    Yeah. And I've heard mixed opinions of that. Like, well, why did you, if you paid attention, you'd now it's like, no, we're reverb realizing this. And then, um, if it's like an internal presentation, like w they're like, no, I'm going to go to the VP of marketing. This is what's going to happen. I'm like, okay, well you mentioned this, this and this. So like what I'm thinking from like a resource perspective, that'll help you prove that out is like, here's what I'm going to put together. You have that meeting on Tuesday. How about like, we review this on Monday to make sure we're on the same page around like the best way to present this. And now you're their ally. Like you're putting together the thing that was going to cause them to work for four hours and you're making sure they sound intelligent and a fluent, what you go actually present that.  
Speaker 2    00:29:26    And then the it's also just a trust thing. They're like, oh, wow. Like, yeah, this isn't some marketing asset you're going to give me, like, you're, you're getting in the trenches to actually build this out for me. And most people aren't doing that, that you're competing with. So it's like, all these things are happening. You're presenting a stronger case with better assets and the people like you, more like you combine all of these things, like you're going to win most competitive deals. Like the only thing you're really going to lose to status quo in that situation.  
Speaker 1    00:29:52    Right. If you're not doing that, I, 100% would recommend, definitely doing what Tyler was saying from a re verbalize, regurgitate, or restate whatever the right vernacular is. Because I think you hit the nail on the head. There's a couple of things. In my opinion, it does, Hey, 100%. It builds trust because you know, it tells me is that he listened to me. Like it, it encourages active listening. Like we talked about a lot of stuff in 30 minutes, and most times you are talking like, why do you guys do that? How's that happen? Well, how does that work? Why does that make sense? What's this use case? Why are you doing it that way? Like, there's a lot that you're at T taking in. So for you at the end of all, that, to be able to say, Hey, Sam, I just want to make sure I heard you correctly.  
Speaker 1    00:30:30    Here's the three main things I know I'm boiling it down quite a bit, but here's really what I heard. Did I miss anything? Is there anything you want to add to that? That tells me, you know what, oh, I did say that actually there's a little bit more to that. Like that carries a lot of weight with me, but it also, when I've done it and when I do it, it also gives me time to get my train of thought like, well, what is the next step I'm actually trying to figure out, like you were saying mix and match, or you said that so that yes, you confirm that. Okay. Here's actually what I think is the best next step. How does that align with what you think next steps are Mr. Prospect? So it almost gives me that few extra seconds to net out what I actually think next step should look like. I don't know if that that's just my, maybe my mind is way too old Thailand. A level of decrepit in my mind doesn't work too quick.  
Speaker 2    00:31:19    I think you're on it, Tim. I would say like the other thing too, is it gives it almost like that objection that they have in their pocket that they're like already ready to pull out. They're like, ah, shit, that one doesn't apply anymore. He just brought me to a level or, okay. Yeah. I guess we will meet Tuesday. That makes complete sense. Like that's half the battle. Sometimes it's just like getting them out of their comfort zone and getting them to trust you to say, all right, let's do this. Like you gave me a logical next step. Like I don't have to think about it. And here's what we're going to do.  
Speaker 1    00:31:51    I think that's the key, right? I mean, if it makes sense, I mean, we're all humans and we're all rational beings. For the most part. If we connect the dots, it's kind of like, Hey, you said this, this and this, what needs to happen? How can I help you get there? Whether it's faster or if it makes your life easier, can I do anything to help you get there faster if you will. And I think that's, that's fair, right? Because now when I'm following up and I'm just reinforcing that in my recap, like it only keeps reinforcing. Here's what you told me. Here's what we agreed to share. The next steps we agreed to. Here's what I'm going to get you by this time. I know you've got a meeting coming up on Tuesday. Here's the one cheater I promised you. And I want to get your thoughts on this because here's another thing I see that I think is just a big miss by salespeople.  
Speaker 1    00:32:33    And my rule of thumb has always been under promise over deliver. I've also had reps have said, let's not give it to you by the end of the day and may seem simple that, Hey, I don't get it until tomorrow morning. But like, if you say you're going to get something by the end of the day, like, if you say, Hey, I'll have it to you. By the end of the day, you've got to have it by the end of the day. Right? I mean, that's just, that's the trust factor, right? I actually pick up on that more than maybe most do. But like, if I tell you I'm going to get it to you by end of the day by lunch, I'm going to get it to you by that time or sooner, I'm trying to over under promise and get it to you faster. But that's, I've seen that happen quite a bit. Tyler, do you think, am I being fair there? I think that's a big deal. Do you see that the whole nine yards  
Speaker 2    00:33:15    And then you over then, that's when you ended up sending out the stock template, your promise to get them that here's, you know, what was it like? You don't look at the gong call. You don't review them. You get something out quickly, you phone in and unless they really need what you have to sell. Like, some people can still sell a deal this way. It's like, if it's, if they have enough pain and you have the solution, like maybe you win the deal. But at the times that that happens, I'm sure. You know, as a very often,  
Speaker 1    00:33:42    Yeah, without a doubt, it's funny because I've actually done this before Tyler, where I've actually said, Hey, I'll have it to you by end of the day. But I was creeping up on the end of the day and I was like, shit, I'm not having like, I need stuff from it. And I did over kind of over promise essential. Cause I didn't think I needed someone else to help me with it. But I remember this client actually coming back to me months later after we've secured a deal and he actually referred to us, we say, you know what, Sam, at the end of the day, you actually emailed me saying, Hey, I promised you by the end of the day, I'm actually waiting on something. So do you mind if I have a, to buy lunch tomorrow? I just wanted to give you a heads up before you wrapped up your day and he just respond. Yes, no problem. Not a problem. My lunch is perfect, but that time that actually carried, I think that actually carried more weight than me even providing what I would have provided by the end of the day. The fact that I acknowledged it, I owned it. I reached out and I told them I'm going to be a little late, but is this okay? That's once again, reinforcing that trust. Yeah.  
Speaker 2    00:34:38    I'll give you a little tidbit here. I'd love to hear your opinion on this. So I do some pretty detailed like proposals and like the structure of like what we're actually bringing. Not here's an order form with pricing on it. And I've actually noticed like, I'll do that end of day thing. And like, these will take me awhile. I might be starting this at like seven o'clock at night. When I send these out after eight 30 at night, I have a 100% response rate by nine by, within an hour. But that timeframe like the psychology of it is like, oh, this guy really was up til nine. O'clock doing this shit. And people tend to be like pretty responsive. I think it's crazy too. That time of day I'm like, why are you emailing me back at 10:00 PM? Like you could have, like tomorrow morning would have been fine. But I think like that effort to either over-communicate like you said, or find a way to get the deliverable there by that time, like that's makes a huge difference.  
Speaker 1    00:35:30    I think it taps into that whole law of reciprocity, right? That you went above and beyond. For me, police I can do is shoot an email or confirm my God it or whatever the right terminology might be. But I truly believe as we're talking through this and we're talking about next steps and follow-up obviously that is kind of the end all be all. But really what we're saying is those are micro reasons or small details that actually build the trust that gets you to the goal. I right, doing those little blocking and tackling things is, is really the differentiator. And tell me I'm full of shit if I'm off base, but that's really where you separate yourself. If you're saying you're doing X, Y, and Z, and your competition is saying that, but actually you're actually delivering moderate in the timeframe. You've told them you deliver. And they're not that under, that basically says more about the competition than you can ever say to the client about that company competitor.  
Speaker 2    00:36:24    Yeah. I mean, then I can schedule a next step, like on the phone, get them to agree to a sink two weeks later, but that's the sink that they either canceled beforehand. They no show for, or, or they come up and they're like, oh yeah, no real updates here. It's like, yeah. Like, because all of that's part of it, like just getting the next step. It needs to be hinged with the, you know, the successful, follow-up the providing a value. Like, I don't know, like I'd rather not have the second step. If you're just going to get on the phone, telling me you haven't done anything and there's no updates there. So I think that gets both like you get the next step and then you stick that next step and like produce urgency with that collateral. Sometimes you have to get the next step to when it is that like ambiguous kind of like waiting game where there's six different pieces you sell and enterprise deals and you're not getting the next step while you're on the call. They're like, they need to go talk to 15 people and, you know, get to that level where they can find time for you. So you better do all that stuff that makes it compelling to them to do that  
Speaker 1    00:37:24    Without a doubt. I'm glad you brought that up because there's an element of this that you just kind of hit the nail on the head. Uh, you know, it's getting the next step, but you know, I want to get your thoughts on this. I've I actually find value. I like to get the next step booked. Hey, cause that means, at least it's on the calendar, but then what I like to do is I'll actually say, Hey, maybe two days, three days, Hey, just so I'm prepared for our next meeting or up for our next conversation. Here's the three things that I said we were going to have prepared. We're going to have ready. You were going to have feedback from me. Are we still in line with that? Is that still the plan? Is that, do you have that update? Will you have if I get their buy-in again? Yeah. I've actually already requested it from this person. We should be good. Talk to you next Monday or whatever the timeframe is. Once again, just reinforcing, Hey, this is going to be a good use of my time and your time. Right. I think people respond to that, right?  
Speaker 2    00:38:14    Yeah. And I want to know too, man, like I'm, I'm busy. Like I need to know that you agree that these are the things and you're not just going to show up to my call and take room on my calendar. So I want to, I want to know both those things. Like I think it's just mutually beneficial. That's also the perfect opportunity to like push for a little bit more to like, I know you mentioned you were going to talk to Steve VP of marketing. You think he should join this cost? I sent an invite to him as well. Maybe this actually this other person, like, but if I'm just telling them, Hey, we still on for Tuesday's Steve gum. And like, there's nothing to it. You gotta provide that first piece and then kind of give them the ask attached to it. Yeah.  
Speaker 1    00:38:52    Without a doubt. And I've actually always found that when people do that with me, maybe that's where I picked it up. But when people do it with me, because we are all busy, right? I mean, I'm trying to juggle a thousand different things. And it's two days before the meeting and I probably forgot about 95% of the action items. I was actually told the person I would do, but that just gives me a heads up. Hey, you're trying to be conscious of my time. That's cool. Let me actually stop what I'm doing down next to get this done before I forget again. And there's that reciprocity, once again, coming in, Hey, you gave me a heads up versus blindsiding me. It means potentially kind of getting that deer in headlights and, and maybe that's a deterrent to getting a deal done is because now I feel like I've dropped the ball or whatever the case might be. So I think that's a valid point as you guys are netting out next steps and confirming what those next steps checks you look like.  
Speaker 2    00:39:40    Yeah. I got to give a little plug too. It's like, I'm selling like a reciprocity platform too. It's like all of these things, like, it's just like a incestual mess of like, by a sales process, being connected to the thing I'm selling, like being attached to the value prop. And they're like, oh, this worked shit. Like I took the lead him. What'd he send me the gifts that I'm closing right now. We need reach desk. Like at that point, like all that stuff goes together. Like, you know, not everybody has that opportunity, but some people do have tools like that too. Like if you can add like that additional personalized touch that even if it's just like a handwritten note or a gift card or something that has value to them, like I had one the other day where she's like, yeah, I just I'm super interested.  
Speaker 2    00:40:23    I can't talk till Friday. Like this event's going to be insane for like the next three days. Like, um, I've marked the followup for Friday. I'm not going to push her. I get the recap over there. And then, uh, on Monday this week I sent her like a, I think it was like a $75 Uber eats gift card. It's like, Hey, I know you're going to be like head down at the event. Probably don't have time to cook and enjoy like time for lunch. So, you know, grab some food for the next three days while you're at the event. I was like, oh wow, this is amazing. Can't wait to talk to you Friday. Like you can like, if you just do that personalized touch, like if you don't have a gifting platform, there's ways to do that through like your communication to,  
Speaker 1    00:40:59    Without a doubt. I think that's a good call out, man. Like, uh, I know I keep beating the dead horse. It's all about the small details, small differentiation that you're setting yourself apart from everything else, because you're genuinely trying to do the right thing. And you're genuinely trying to understand where that person's coming from and setting the proper expectations. Thanks. So final thoughts for the guests. Like we talked about a lot, we talk about next steps, preparation, follow up. If you do this within an hour, that the net net that you're seeing from the data, you know, some tips and tricks. And when you do set that, Hey, what is the agenda for that call? Are we on target for that? Does that make sense? Really all of these different things. And like you said, Hey, maybe you will set yourself apart further by doing a little something else like that. Reciprocity send a quick gift, say, Hey, I know your head's down. You had a brand new baby, you know, have dinner on us until then I'll talk to you next Friday. I think that's all fair. Any other tips, tricks along those lines that you'd like to share with the audience Tyler?  
Speaker 2    00:41:56    I like to over-prepare in the sense that like, I'll bring somebody else to this call that you didn't expect. I'm bringing like my CEO to the second call with an enterprise company. And they're like, what's like, why is okay? Or I'm bringing a BDR to the call to talk to your BDR manager about exactly how they use this thing in their workflow. So it's like, everybody else is being reactive. The other company is going to bring their CEO when they're losing the deal to that. And they're going to come try and discount and throw a bunch of incentives that have nothing to do with the value. Like just what do you think they need? And like over-prepare and like kill them with kind of the surprise of like, wow, this guy, like he has it all together. And I have a great team to do that.  
Speaker 2    00:42:38    I've been able to leverage all these people in different departments, but you'd be surprised how much these people are interested in sales. Like you'd think like a marketer project managers that like, I don't want to hop on like a call, but that's this stuff's interesting to them. And they work for the post-sale team where like, they're like, oh, this is how this works. Like a lot of them, like I've noticed, some of them can like inherently sound and they're not salespeople. So the psychology of that helps so much too. They're just like accidentally selling because they have so much faith in what they actually do. So yeah, I've seen a lot of success though. It is just sell proactively. Don't be reactive, like do these things on the front end and like it'll pay it forward. Like later in the process.  
Speaker 1    00:43:18    That's fantastic, man. Hey, how do people connect with you all that kind of learn more about you, whatever the case might be.  
Speaker 2    00:43:26    Yeah. LinkedIn works, you know, sales reps. If you're in a position where you're looking for the next opportunity, we're looking to make a little bit more money. Like that's what I love doing. I love helping people kind of shortcut this jointed process that you and I, that you don't need to sell uniforms. You don't need to go door to door. Like you might not even need to be an SDR. You might be able to find like a full cycle role. So like knowing that like you may not even understand your own value. And I love having those chats, whether or not like you ended up working with me and anybody who needs like that top of funnel kind of support on the prospecting side. Like I love doing that. Whether it be like a individual project or actually building out a team. So feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. And if you're trying to get those meetings and be in a, like, do the reciprocity deal and your sales process, like reached us a great tool. And, uh, I have I've have kind of seen them all. I use Dallas as an end-user. You send out so sold. It's a gnosis. So really believe in what we're doing. That's fine  
Speaker 1    00:44:24    Testing, man. If we're going to include links to Tyler's LinkedIn profile and everything he mentioned, Hey, Tyler, sincerely appreciate you taking the time, man. It was an absolute pleasure.  
Speaker 2    00:44:35    Yeah. Thank you, Sam. This is fun.  
Speaker 0    00:44:38    Thank you for listening to the sales samurai podcast with your house, Sam Capra. Be sure you subscribe to our podcast and visit sales samurai.io and join the conversation. Access show notes and discover bonus content.